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From: "Anthony W. Marino" <anthony@AWMObjects.com>
Organization: AWM Objects
To: Greg Freemyer <freemyer@NorcrossGroup.com>
Subject: Re: re[8]: Which Kernel for XFS
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2002 17:16:43 -0400
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References: <20020604210613.KLAU1171.imf07bis.bellsouth.net@taz>
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Greg,
Thank you for your time!!!
Anthony

> Anthony,
>
> You need more advice than I can give you.  I have so far stuck to patched
> distribution kernels.  i.e. Mandrake, Redhat, SuSE.
>
> In your case, you might want to start following the aa kernels.  i.e. SuSE
> is using 2.4.19-pre8aa1 where the aa is the initials of a specific kernel
> developer.
>
> They are a set of patched kernel.org kernels that have the xfs patches and
> some others all ready integrated.
>
> I don't know if they have any xfs patches newer than xfs v1.1 or not.  I
> "assume" that only stable xfs patches are included.
>
> I say this, because the CVS tree breaks from time-to-time, and if you just
> blindly grab every patch that comes along, you will likely have a broken
> kernel from time-to-time.
>
> Greg
>
>  >>  Greg,
>  >>
>  >>  I, do, appreciate and agree with your thought process however I want
>  >> the latest and greatest XFS patches.
>  >>
>  >>  Do you, then, think that it's safe to stay with, let's say in my case,
>  >>  Mantel,
>  >>  and apply XFS patches to it as they appear???
>  >>
>  >>
>  >>  Thank You,
>  >>  Anthony
>  >>
>  >>  > Anthony,
>  >>  >
>  >>  > I am not an expert on Linux kernels, and I'm sure there are people
>  >>  > on
>  >>
>  >>  this
>  >>
>  >>  > list that will disagree with the below, but my thoughts are:
>  >>  >
>  >>  > It depends on what you are trying to do.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > If you are a kernel developer, or you want to be on the bleeding
>  >>  > edge of kernel capabilities, then you need a kernel from kernel.org
>  >>  > or one of
>  >>
>  >>  the
>  >>
>  >>  > other kernel maintainers.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > For production I like to use distribution kernels.or patched
>  >>
>  >>  distribution
>  >>
>  >>  > kernels.  i.e. From Redhat, SuSE, Mandrake, etc.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > My logic for this is that if the kernel turns out to have a bug, it
>  >>  > is likely that distribution maintainer will correct the kernel and
>  >>  > send out the fix.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > i.e. Redhat supported the 2.4.9 kernel for 8 months or so, and may
>  >>  > still
>  >>
>  >>  be
>  >>
>  >>  > releasing patches for it.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > If you are using a kernel.org kernel, and you get a rev. level
>  >>  > behind, nobody is going to support you.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > i.e.  If you have 2.4.17 kernel today, and a kernel bug pops up that
>  >>  > you care about, there is nobody that is going to creating patches
>  >>  > against
>  >>
>  >>  that
>  >>
>  >>  > "old" of a kernel.  As I understand it, the kernel developers never
>  >>  > fix
>  >>
>  >>  a
>  >>
>  >>  > released kernel.  If something is broke, they fix it in the next
>  >>
>  >>  release.
>  >>
>  >>  > Unfortunately, something else will likely be broken in the next
>  >>  > release.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > If you want a "maintained" kernel, you have to get it from a
>  >>
>  >>  distribution
>  >>
>  >>  > provider.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > Another issue, is that if you upgrade your kernel and you don't get
>  >>  > all
>  >>
>  >>  the
>  >>
>  >>  > associated pieces, you can break some applications.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > i.e. Some of the xfs user-land tools for kernels prior to 2.4.18
>  >>  > don't
>  >>
>  >>  work
>  >>
>  >>  > with the 2.4.18 kernel.  I imagine that there are many of these
>  >>  > kernel dependencies spread around a typical distribution, and you
>  >>  > risk breaking things if you upgrade the kernel lock, stock, and
>  >>  > barrel.
>  >>  >
>  >>  > Greg Freemyer
>  >>  > Internet Engineer
>  >>  > Deployment and Integration Specialist
>  >>  > Compaq ASE - Tru64
>  >>  > Compaq Master ASE - SAN Architect
>  >>  > The Norcross Group
>  >>  > www.NorcrossGroup.com
>  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  Greg,
>  >>  >  >>  Are there any advantages to me using the Mantel/SuSE kernel
>  >>  >  >> over
>  >>
>  >>  the
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  latest
>  >>  >  >>  sources from sgi?
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  Thanks,
>  >>  >  >>  Anthon
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  > Anthony,
>  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  > The notes at
>  >>
>  >> 
>  >> ftp://ftp-linux.cc.gatech.edu/pub/linux/distributions/suse/people/mante
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>l/ ne
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >xt/kernel-source.changes give you some of what you are asking
>  >>
>  >>  about.
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  > Per the above, it is based on the 2.4.19-pre8aa1 kernel.  I
>  >>
>  >>  believe
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  > that already has the XFS patches in it, so you could look
>  >>  >  >>  > into
>  >>
>  >>  what
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  > it has.
>  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  > For details, I guess you need to download the source RPM and
>  >>  >  >>  > read the specfile.
>  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  > Greg
>  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > Since you are using a SuSE distribution, have you
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > thought about using
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  the
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > SuSE experimental kernel from
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/people/mantel/next/RPM/
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > It has all the standard SuSE patches and includes a
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > relatively recent
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  XFS.
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > Possibly XFS v1.1, but I'm not sure.
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  I have the Mantel's latest kernel installed on my laptop
>  >>  >  >>  >  >> however
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  I'm
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >> not certain what it is that I have.  What I mean by that
>  >>  >  >>  >  >> is
>  >>
>  >>  how
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >> do I find out what XFS version and patch level do I have
>  >>  >  >>  >  >> so
>  >>
>  >>  that
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >> I can decide on patch upgrades?  I know it says kernel
>  >>  >  >>  >  >> 2.4.18 however is
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  it
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >> really 2.4.19 pre... .
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  As you can see, I'm not certain of the versions and
>  >>  >  >>  >  >> patch levels contained
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  within the Mantel stuff.
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  Anthony
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > FYI: The stock SuSE 8.0 kernel also has XFS support,
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > but
>  >>
>  >>  the
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > ACL
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  handling
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > is broken in such a way that xfsdump/xfsrestore don't
>  >>
>  >>  handle
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > ACLs correctly.
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > Greg Freemyer
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > Internet Engineer
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > Deployment and Integration Specialist
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > Compaq ASE - Tru64
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > Compaq Master ASE - SAN Architect
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > The Norcross Group
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > www.NorcrossGroup.com
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  Steve,
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  What do you recommend that I use since the box
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >> I'm building
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  is
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >> a development
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  box for myself which I will be using for
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >> development
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  purposes
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >> and
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  thus
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  will
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  be using other cvs sources from other opesource
>  >>
>  >>  projects
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >> as well?
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  Anthony
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > On Mon, 2002-06-03 at 13:26, Anthony W. Marino
>  >>
>  >>  wrote:
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > I'm building/setting-up a new server SuSE 7.3
>  >>
>  >>  which
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > will
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  include
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > 3ware (7810) ide raid (10 or 5) with brand
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > new drives
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  and
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > most likely LVM
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  too.
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > Should I get the kernel from oss.sgi.com cvs
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > (CVSROOT=":pserver:cvs@oss.sgi.com:/cvs"
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > linux-2.4-xfs)
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  or
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > is there another location/process that I
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > should
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  entertain?
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > Also
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  what
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > kernel release does the oss.sgi.com cvs
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > sources
>  >>
>  >>  give
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > me?
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > >
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > Thank You,
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > > Anthony
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > Right now it gives you 2.4.19-pre9 with xfs and
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > kdb (which you probably do not care about).
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > There are fixes in this
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  tree
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > which
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  are
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > not available anywhere else, it is the most
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > direct link to XFS development. Of course this
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > also
>  >>
>  >>  possibly
>  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > means there
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  are
>  >>  >  >>
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > bugs in this tree which are not available
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > anywhere else.
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  >  >>  >  >>  > Steve
>  >>  >  >>  >
>  >>  >  >>  > Greg Freemyer
>  >>  >  >>  > Internet Engineer
>  >>  >  >>  > Deployment and Integration Specialist
>  >>  >  >>  > Compaq ASE - Tru64
>  >>  >  >>  > Compaq Master ASE - SAN Architect
>  >>  >  >>  > The Norcross Group
>  >>  >  >>  > www.NorcrossGroup.com
>
> Greg Freemyer
> Internet Engineer
> Deployment and Integration Specialist
> Compaq ASE - Tru64
> Compaq Master ASE - SAN Architect
> The Norcross Group
> www.NorcrossGroup.com